Comments on: Secular Music in Church?!?! http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/ STRATIVITY (strategy + creativity) Sun, 31 Jul 2011 05:09:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Cheryl Gratt http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1334 Cheryl Gratt Sun, 29 Aug 2010 23:05:36 +0000 http://www.stewonline.com/?p=125#comment-1334 Jason: I appreciated reading your aritcle as well as the others comments. We are having battle royale in a SMALL Methodist church in the sticks....Some of us want to have a CLASSICAL brass instrument concert..NOT associated with a service of any kind, in our sanctuary and you would think we were inviting hoochee-coochee girls in! A couple of members are RAILING...would anyone care to comment on this??? Thanks! Jason: I appreciated reading your aritcle as well as the others comments. We are having battle royale in a SMALL Methodist church in the sticks….Some of us want to have a CLASSICAL brass instrument concert..NOT associated with a service of any kind, in our sanctuary and you would think we were inviting hoochee-coochee girls in! A couple of members are RAILING…would anyone care to comment on this???

Thanks!

]]> By: Mozell Vogtman http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1315 Mozell Vogtman Fri, 13 Aug 2010 04:46:48 +0000 http://www.stewonline.com/?p=125#comment-1315 hi-ya, superb article. hi-ya, superb article.

]]> By: Diana Romano http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-59 Diana Romano Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:57:46 +0000 http://www.stewonline.com/?p=125#comment-59 Jason, I respect your opinion and thank you for allowing me the space to rant a little. Back to Bono. He may be a Christian but that doesn't make his song worthy to be heard in church because it wasn't God honoring. Lyrics from the song like these on the surface are about Christ, but if he believes don't you question why he still hasn't found what he's looking for "You broke the bonds And you loosed the chains Carried the cross Of my shame Of my shame You know I believed it But I still haven’t found what I’m looking for" But the lyrics like the ones below are different. Humor me and tell me where God is in them and how they speak about relevance and bridge the gap between society and God. I have kissed honey lips Felt the healing fingertips It burned like fire This burning desire I have spoke with the tongue of angels I have held the hand of the devil It was warm in the night I was cold as a stone But I still haven't found what I'm looking for" In the end of the song He still hasn't found it, That really was a stretch for a Sunday morning service about the wisemen looking for the King of Kings, They knew what they were looking for. Check it out Matthew 2, They knew who they were looking for and knew he was a newborn. Matthew 2:2 states from the NLT "Where is the newborn king of Jews? We saw his star as it rose, and we have come to worship him. I can not compete with you biblically because you have gone to school and seminary, but these are basic thoughts and I am maybe what most would consider to be a simple person but these are basic truths. Thanks again, You encouraged me to open my Bible and dig deeper. And unlike Bono I did find exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Diana Ps, just so everyone understands, I am not against styles and contemporary worship, I am not for songs with lyrics that are not God honoring. Jason,
I respect your opinion and thank you for allowing me the space to rant a little. Back to Bono. He may be a Christian but that doesn’t make his song worthy to be heard in church because it wasn’t God honoring. Lyrics from the song like these on the surface are about Christ, but if he believes don’t you question why he still hasn’t found what he’s looking for
“You broke the bonds
And you loosed the chains
Carried the cross
Of my shame
Of my shame
You know I believed it
But I still haven’t found what I’m looking for”
But the lyrics like the ones below are different. Humor me and tell me where God is in them and how they speak about relevance and bridge the gap between society and God.
I have kissed honey lips
Felt the healing fingertips
It burned like fire
This burning desire
I have spoke with the tongue of angels
I have held the hand of the devil
It was warm in the night
I was cold as a stone
But I still haven’t found what I’m looking for”
In the end of the song He still hasn’t found it, That really was a stretch for a Sunday morning service about the wisemen looking for the King of Kings, They knew what they were looking for. Check it out Matthew 2, They knew who they were looking for and knew he was a newborn. Matthew 2:2 states from the NLT “Where is the newborn king of Jews? We saw his star as it rose, and we have come to worship him.
I can not compete with you biblically because you have gone to school and seminary, but these are basic thoughts and I am maybe what most would consider to be a simple person but these are basic truths.
Thanks again, You encouraged me to open my Bible and dig deeper. And unlike Bono I did find exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks
Diana
Ps, just so everyone understands, I am not against styles and contemporary worship, I am not for songs with lyrics that are not God honoring.

]]> By: Jason Stewart http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-60 Jason Stewart Thu, 08 Mar 2007 06:31:41 +0000 http://www.stewonline.com/?p=125#comment-60 It is always interesting to get responses from folks and hear different opinions. It is also risky to see how people will react but I find that it helps clarify my thoughts and convictions. As far as this topic, I think it is a good conversation. A couple of thoughts to the comments so far: -Steven listed lyrics to a song...not familiar with it and must point out that the majority of the post is from someone else not me -we have used "secular" songs in the past to help people connect with a topic from God's Truth and help present the world's way versus God's way -I believe God uses the emotions in the process of salvation...He created them, that is a large part of why we have music/worship and why God gave that to us -this is probably something we all agree with but a good reminder, worship isn't worship because it is in a certain room...worship is an attitude, a lifestyle, daily habit of responding to God -I struggle when we say these are okay for day to day life but not appropriate in the "sanctuary", sometimes I wonder if that borders on religion and compartmentalizing our faith -if we use secular songs we are careful to investigate the artist and lyrics... -...case in point, the Sunday we used the song "I still haven't found what I am looking for" by U2 was a perfect example of using a song that points to the Big Idea of the morning. The message revolved around the idea that Christmas story exposed that the Magi were searching for something/for life and only found it in Jesus. The song was expressing what many people feel today, we are searching for life and will continue to search until we look to Christ. Plus, Bono is living a life that models Jesus more than most Christians in our world today (and he professes Christ). Finally, I think God is glorified more when we live our life with grace and truth than singing a couple of songs on Sunday. Furthermore, I think He is glorified and His renown is magnified like crazy when unbelieving people become believers. So, when we can help connect people begin to wrestle with the truth of God with things they can identify with (topics, music, movie clips, etc.), we give credibility that God's Word is relevant. Yes, the God draws the lost and I believe in a Sovereign God who is Lord! And I also realize from His Word that we have a part to play and as the church His instrument to help convince people that Jesus is God and He is worthy to follow. When those two things collide it make a mess for our limited intellect but I know an Almighty and Wise God can make sense of those. Thanks for reading. It is always interesting to get responses from folks and hear different opinions. It is also risky to see how people will react but I find that it helps clarify my thoughts and convictions.
As far as this topic, I think it is a good conversation. A couple of thoughts to the comments so far:
-Steven listed lyrics to a song…not familiar with it and must point out that the majority of the post is from someone else not me
-we have used “secular” songs in the past to help people connect with a topic from God’s Truth and help present the world’s way versus God’s way
-I believe God uses the emotions in the process of salvation…He created them, that is a large part of why we have music/worship and why God gave that to us
-this is probably something we all agree with but a good reminder, worship isn’t worship because it is in a certain room…worship is an attitude, a lifestyle, daily habit of responding to God
-I struggle when we say these are okay for day to day life but not appropriate in the “sanctuary”, sometimes I wonder if that borders on religion and compartmentalizing our faith
-if we use secular songs we are careful to investigate the artist and lyrics…
-…case in point, the Sunday we used the song “I still haven’t found what I am looking for” by U2 was a perfect example of using a song that points to the Big Idea of the morning. The message revolved around the idea that Christmas story exposed that the Magi were searching for something/for life and only found it in Jesus. The song was expressing what many people feel today, we are searching for life and will continue to search until we look to Christ. Plus, Bono is living a life that models Jesus more than most Christians in our world today (and he professes Christ).
Finally, I think God is glorified more when we live our life with grace and truth than singing a couple of songs on Sunday. Furthermore, I think He is glorified and His renown is magnified like crazy when unbelieving people become believers. So, when we can help connect people begin to wrestle with the truth of God with things they can identify with (topics, music, movie clips, etc.), we give credibility that God’s Word is relevant.
Yes, the God draws the lost and I believe in a Sovereign God who is Lord! And I also realize from His Word that we have a part to play and as the church His instrument to help convince people that Jesus is God and He is worthy to follow. When those two things collide it make a mess for our limited intellect but I know an Almighty and Wise God can make sense of those.
Thanks for reading.

]]> By: George Romano http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-61 George Romano Tue, 06 Mar 2007 03:00:59 +0000 http://www.stewonline.com/?p=125#comment-61 Jason, Thank you for posting a difficult topic for discussion. I would bet that this is a touchy subject for a lot of people. I have to say that I do not agree with this article. Music during worship service should be designed to focus on God, not on the guest. It is the Holy Spirit that draws a person to a saving knowledge of Christ, not a song that appeals to the emotional side of a person. In saying that, I do agree that there is no problem with selecting music for a worship service based upon a theme such as grace, forgiveness, etc. that matches the "theme" of the message being preached. Thanks, George Jason,
Thank you for posting a difficult topic for discussion. I would bet that this is a touchy subject for a lot of people.
I have to say that I do not agree with this article. Music during worship service should be designed to focus on God, not on the guest.
It is the Holy Spirit that draws a person to a saving knowledge of Christ, not a song that appeals to the emotional side of a person.
In saying that, I do agree that there is no problem with selecting music for a worship service based upon a theme such as grace, forgiveness, etc. that matches the “theme” of the message being preached.
Thanks,
George

]]> By: Steven http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-62 Steven Tue, 06 Mar 2007 03:00:48 +0000 http://www.stewonline.com/?p=125#comment-62 Diana, I agree and I am not in the middle, this is not God honoring. If it is Worship, then it must be focused on God. I just took a quick trip to check the lyrics to one of the bands you mentioned and I am going to post the lyrics for you but before I do that, I know that scripture tells us. In 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 "and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you," "so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need." (1 Thessalonians 5:22, NASB95) "abstain from every form of evil” I would think since most of these bands either do not acknowledge God and in some cases, some bands are just plain hostile toward God. I know from my own experience that music plays a very important role in people’s lives. They really connect using it, but to use ungodly music in a worship service borders on the obscene. Look music (ungodly, secular) had a strong hold on me and if it is not for God then it is according to scripture against God. The song lyrics form "The Killers" borders on being scary, it sounds as if the 1st Person is a stalker, obsessed and about ready to loose control and do something that God would condemn. One of the biggest problems with all of this garbage making its way in our churches is that God's authority gets undermined and people do not have wisdom because as the proverbs says, they do not fear the Lord. Besides that I know I do not allow my children to listen to music that does not honor our Lord and neither do I. I ask this one question, have you considered your weaker brothers and sisters, or the children who parents who like me forbid that kind of music. Do you tell them so they have the chance to honor their mother and father as scripture commands. You will have to do what you want to do, but remember the words of my Master, "you cannot serve two masters for you will love the one and despise the other" The song for the Killers is Read my mind When I'm all alone at night I can hear the beating of your heart I should tell you And I might Before it tears me apart You're all I ever think about alone at night I can hear the beating of your heart I should tell you And I might Before it tears me apart You're all I ever think about All I ever dream about Can you read my mind Can you read my mind Don't wanna look at you I probably should go 'Cause I wanna be with you More than you'll ever know For a tasts of you Object of my desrire Baby you blow my mind You light my fire Want you Need you Can't live without you Chorus Is this the way I feel Or curiosity All the things you do That bring out the lust in me The thought of me and you Drives me wild Come close to me Can you stay awhile Want you Need you Can't live without you Chorus out This might be OK for you (or at least you think it might be) but since when has God started using unholy things to communicate to a Holy people? Diana, I agree and I am not in the middle, this is not God honoring.
If it is Worship, then it must be focused on God. I just took a quick trip to check the lyrics to one of the bands you mentioned and I am going to post the lyrics for you but before I do that, I know that scripture tells us. In 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 “and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,” “so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.” (1 Thessalonians 5:22, NASB95) “abstain from every form of evil”
I would think since most of these bands either do not acknowledge God and in some cases, some bands are just plain hostile toward God.
I know from my own experience that music plays a very important role in people’s lives. They really connect using it, but to use ungodly music in a worship service borders on the obscene. Look music (ungodly, secular) had a strong hold on me and if it is not for God then it is according to scripture against God.
The song lyrics form “The Killers” borders on being scary, it sounds as if the 1st Person is a stalker, obsessed and about ready to loose control and do something that God would condemn. One of the biggest problems with all of this garbage making its way in our churches is that God’s authority gets undermined and people do not have wisdom because as the proverbs says, they do not fear the Lord.
Besides that I know I do not allow my children to listen to music that does not honor our Lord and neither do I. I ask this one question, have you considered your weaker brothers and sisters, or the children who parents who like me forbid that kind of music.
Do you tell them so they have the chance to honor their mother and father as scripture commands. You will have to do what you want to do, but remember the words of my Master, “you cannot serve two masters for you will love the one and despise the other”
The song for the Killers is Read my mind
When I’m all alone at night
I can hear the beating of your heart
I should tell you
And I might
Before it tears me apart
You’re all I ever think about
alone at night
I can hear the beating of your heart
I should tell you
And I might
Before it tears me apart
You’re all I ever think about
All I ever dream about
Can you read my mind
Can you read my mind
Don’t wanna look at you
I probably should go
‘Cause I wanna be with you
More than you’ll ever know
For a tasts of you
Object of my desrire
Baby you blow my mind
You light my fire
Want you
Need you
Can’t live without you
Chorus
Is this the way I feel
Or curiosity
All the things you do
That bring out the lust in me
The thought of me and you
Drives me wild
Come close to me
Can you stay awhile
Want you
Need you
Can’t live without you
Chorus out
This might be OK for you (or at least you think it might be) but since when has God started using unholy things to communicate to a Holy people?

]]> By: Diana Romano http://www.stewonline.com/secular-music-in-church/comment-page-1/#comment-63 Diana Romano Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:45:59 +0000 http://www.stewonline.com/?p=125#comment-63 I don't think I agree or disagree, I am somewhere in the middle. I believe music and style of music doesn't matter. I listen to alot of secular music, I have a great love for music. However, if the words in the song don't honor or worship God in the most holy of places, why bother with that song? Worship in the sanctuary is for that purpose and that purpose alone isn't it? I am what my husband refers to as naive about certain things in life yet isn't the time prior to the sermon called praise and worship, just to do that, be God loving , honoring and holy to his name. I wrote Ron Alley a few weeks ago to tell him that it was inspiring to see him amongst the rest of the congregation lifting his hands worshiping God, because he is the one who normally leads us on Sundays. That being said, secular music, if and that is a very big IF should be thought out and chosen carefully. If I were not a Christian and the Holy spirit was laying on my heart to get my pants to church, I would certainly think that God would want me to hear something praising his name. I do have a problem when songs by U2 are sang the melody is beautiful but the words were not good. I am speaking of the song Still haven't found what I'm looking for. Love the staff, song should have been edited from certain verses due to it not being God honoring! We didn't come to church that day to hear the gospel according to Bono, and when I got home I googled that song only to find out that it wasn't so much written about faith but the lack there of it! Churches sometimes have to change their style of music, but there is enough out there to choose from to achieve this and it doesn't need to be mainstream secular music. Maybe my life right now is more emotional than some and I feel the holy presence of God when Ron and the worship team sings songs that are speaking only about God and his love for us and how we should be worshiping him. Jason, I appreciate your opinion and what you blog usually makes me reach deep into who I am to dig up an answer. I do appreciate that you post my comments even if you or no one agrees with them. Thanks, Diana I don’t think I agree or disagree, I am somewhere in the middle.
I believe music and style of music doesn’t matter. I listen to alot of secular music, I have a great love for music. However, if the words in the song don’t honor or worship God in the most holy of places, why bother with that song?
Worship in the sanctuary is for that purpose and that purpose alone isn’t it? I am what my husband refers to as naive about certain things in life yet isn’t the time prior to the sermon called praise and worship, just to do that, be God loving , honoring and holy to his name.
I wrote Ron Alley a few weeks ago to tell him that it was inspiring to see him amongst the rest of the congregation lifting his hands worshiping God, because he is the one who normally leads us on Sundays. That being said, secular music, if and that is a very big IF should be thought out and chosen carefully. If I were not a Christian and the Holy spirit was laying on my heart to get my pants to church, I would certainly think that God would want me to hear something praising his name. I do have a problem when songs by U2 are sang the melody is beautiful but the words were not good. I am speaking of the song Still haven’t found what I’m looking for. Love the staff, song should have been edited from certain verses due to it not being God honoring! We didn’t come to church that day to hear the gospel according to Bono, and when I got home I googled that song only to find out that it wasn’t so much written about faith but the lack there of it!
Churches sometimes have to change their style of music, but there is enough out there to choose from to achieve this and it doesn’t need to be mainstream secular music. Maybe my life right now is more emotional than some and I feel the holy presence of God when Ron and the worship team sings songs that are speaking only about God and his love for us and how we should be worshiping him.
Jason, I appreciate your opinion and what you blog usually makes me reach deep into who I am to dig up an answer. I do appreciate that you post my comments even if you or no one agrees with them.
Thanks,
Diana

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